Friday 1 June 2012

The Hungry Caterpillar and Dickens..... by Miriam Halahmy and Keren David


Are the lines between children’s and adult books drawn up too tightly in the UK today? Miriam and Keren recently discussed this thorny issue on Facebook.

Miriam
Bali Rai said at a recent SCBWI panel that there shouldn’t be children’s books or adult books. Just books. What do you think? Should The Hungry Caterpillar sit next to Dickens?



Keren
No. I think that primary school children need to be protected from ‘adult’ content and language, to give them the space for growing up. From 12+ they are ready to be exposed to most books.
Miriam
But I have ten year olds reading my books which I am told are only suitable for Y9 onwards. Whose job is it to provide this protection? The librarians? The parents?
Keren
Well, all school can do is decide what does and doesn’t go in their school library. I think it’s up to parents to read alongside their kids and discuss the books with them. What do you think?
I don’t think there is anything in your books which isn’t suitable for an intelligent 10 year old thought – do you?
Miriam
I do think that parents should be involved in their children’s reading but unfortunately there will always be children who are left to their own devices. The question is how far to me go to control content and ‘protect’ children?
In relation to Illegal school tell me they would only pitch it to Y8 or Y9 even. Should this be a problem for Y.A. writers when they are choosing content for their books?
Keren
I think if you’re writing Y.A. it’s by definition for older teens and they’ll get more out of it. But I’m interested in what aspects aren’t suitable for what ages. Like some parents don’t want their kids reading about knife crime at all ... what’s that about?
Miriam
In the case of Illegal they might object to the drugs element or self-harm. But I find it very difficult to tell what parents or librarians are going to object to.
The definition of what is Y.A. is also tricky when there are ten year olds reading our books. I feel my books are suitable for independent readers from 10+  and therefore what does Y.A. really mean?
Keren
In When I Was Joe there’s also a self-harm element and that’s the aspect I don’t think is suitable for younger kids. But I also think kids will self-censor – if something is too shocking for them they just stop reading. Funnily enough it’s the swearing aspect which bothers me most for younger kids – they have to learn from somewhere that swearing isn’t always appropriate, difficult if the chacracters in the books they read are cursing like sailors.
I think Young Adult implies that the book is for readers of at least 12 years old, those who have made the leap to secondary school. But my kids went to a primary school which is attached to a High School, and they went on the school bus with the teenagers. They learned a lot about drugs and all sorts from listening to the older pupils’ conversations and that wasn’t a bad thing.
I’m very aware of all the other media around. Young kids watch Skins, the Inbetweeners, Eastenders. What’s to shock them in my books?
Miriam
Yes, kids watch all these programmes which have much more explicit elements than many of the Y.A. books.
Keren
Sometimes people object to the wrong things. They get all upset about knife crime when they should be more worried about passive girls and abusive paranormal boyfriends.
Miriam
I don’t want to feel guilty about kids hearing my talks and reading my books. But with all the talk in the media about what is acceptable, sometimes I feel unsure about who I’m supposed to pitch my books to.
Keren
I pitch to 14 year olds. I worked in the media and I know how much of the talk there is so much hot air.
Miriam
I go where I’m invited, which is Y6 upwards. But I’m happy with all the groups I’ve spoken to since my books came out. Their ability to discuss controversial themes is quite amazing. we shouldn’t underestimate our young people.
Keren
The most difficult school visit I ever did was to a primary school. Y6! I had nothing to say and didn’t want them to read my book!
Have you ever had a reader tell you they’ve been upset or distressed by anything in your books – or have been helped?
Miriam
Kids tell me they’ve learnt things they nothing about. Some of them say they usually read paranormal romance but my books make them think a lot. Interesting!
One ten year old boy said reading Illegal was like reading the story of his own life.
The most difficult school visit I did was one where the kids sat in silence and I just couldn’t warm them up or get them to engage.
What sort of feedback from kids makes you realise you’ve really hit the spot with them?
Keren
One boy wrote to me about friends who’d been stabbed and how my book made him think about what happened to them. But the best feedback I had was from a librarian in a Young Offenders Institution who said my book was the most stolen in the library. I must be doing something right.
I find it very moving when 14 year old boys tell me that I’ve created a boy of their age that they believe is real.
Miriam
Feedback from the kids is very inspiring for us, I think and shows us that we are writing the kinds of books they want to read.
Great discussion Keren.

Over to you now – Do you think the lines between children’s and adult books are too rigid in the UK today?



6 comments:

  1. I don't think you should feel guilty about your books at all, Miriam. But, because YA or teen books are targeted, I think whoever is responsible for that targeting (probably the publisher?) should make it clear to potential readers what themes might be in the content. For me, it's not about what should or shouldn't be in a book or even self-censorship. It's more that you should be able to make a relatively well informed choice before you start turning the pages.

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  2. Maybe teen books with relatively gritty themes should have some sort of note on the cover....it is a difficult thing because there are so many different opinions to negotiate out there as you can see from our comments. Ah, the debate will continue! Thanks for your comment.

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  3. I think you're right - people are great at censoring themselves. I do think there's a difference between watching something like Skins and reading about drug use etc though - reading is a lot more personal - when you read, you imagine yourself in the character's position; when you watch tv, you're essentially watching other people doing things - you're removed from the situation. On the other hand, I also think adults enjoy imagining childhood as something it isn't - we put those rose-tinted glasses on and forget that we also knew about all of this stuff when we were 12. Great post, guys!

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  4. Great stuff from both of you. I rather like Hot Key's approach (flagged up in We Sat Down's post today), where instead of age indicators they give a few hints on content. I'm never sure with age-ranging whether they mean 'contains rudey bits' or 'is written in a style which is more appropriate for 13+', and the covers/titles don't always help.

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  5. I left a copy of The Lovely Bones around the house when I was reading it - our 10 year-old came to me and said that book you're reading - I just read the beginning... I had been disturbed by it - I felt sick that she had read it too. She's 20 now - I've sent a text to ask what she remembers about it. The most important thing is that it inspired independant reading. And in the case of one teen reader of my picture book 'HIC!' - inspired independant travel - •" I thought, if you can't find what you want go search for it...even if it means you hit up the freakin moon!" - I am signed in as anonymous - can't get proper log in on train from Glasgow - Thanks for great debate. Sue Eves www.sueeves.net

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  6. I think that there are a couple of issues here: first are the lines between children’s books and adult books too rigid? I would argue yes, not only are they rigid, but irrelevant: readers will choose books based on what they want to read.

    The second issue is should we protect children from certain issues? No. We have to teach our kids about what’s going on in the world because there are aspects of it that are pretty scary and if they don’t know about it then they are open to all kinds of abuse. And it’s our responsibility as parents and teachers to do it and if we don’t want our kids to know certain stuff at a certain age then that’s our responsibility as well. Books come with blurbs, some come with recommended ages (see above about that though) and if you’re still not sure, you can open the pages and check. In then end if you want the writer or the publisher to do all that for you, you need to ask yourself why.

    I could actually go on for pages and pages about this, but I’ll stop now. Great post.

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